Internationalism isn't antithetical to nationalism, rather supplementary

Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque is an  educationalist, thinker and President of Bangla Academy. The former professor of the Department of Bangla at the University of Dhaka recently spoke with 'Views Bangladesh' on mob culture, the deterioration of the education system, and nationalism. Girish Goiric, Associate Editor of 'Views Bangladesh', conducted the interview.

Views Bangladesh: Recently, mob culture has taken deep root in the country. It existed even during Sheikh Hasina's tenure, but now it has increased. Many people are taking justice into their own hands. This represents a kind of moral decline in our culture. How do you think we can rise above this mob culture, and what should we do now?

Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque: It is true that what we are witnessing now is not democracy; it's mobocracy. There’s a saying, especially among Marxists, that human history is created by humans themselves, not by any supernatural force. The civilization that humanity has built over centuries has been shaped by advanced thinking and a refined conscience. There are people who work against this conscience and intelligence, and when they dominate any society or nation, it leads to decay and degradation.

Now, what is the solution to this? If we want an immediate solution, the country’s law enforcement situation needs to be strengthened. But this is not the best method. Legal measures provide a temporary solution, and this, too, doesn't last long. Eventually, people rise against it. A more sustainable solution is to have enlightened democratic leadership. Such leadership can educate people and lead to a change in the situation. For those who refuse to understand, there should be legal punishment. But those who administer punishment must first develop their own moral character and thoughts.

One basic principle is that senior officials in government offices must respect their juniors. This has been ignored in Bangladesh since 1972. Why? After the liberation war, many people elbowed their way into high positions, while those who were competent but lacked power were left behind. Politics is the primary and essential condition for the development of a population, but neither Bangabandhu, Maulana Bhashani, nor Sher-e-Bangla AK Fazlul Huq made efforts to demonstrate this. Considering all this, it’s evident that even our modern politics is weak. Although flawed, our leaders have made some progress. New leaders should discard outdated ideas and bring in new political thinking that is necessary for our society and state.

Views Bangladesh: Many teachers have been forced to resign, and some students have physically assaulted their teachers. How can the education system recover from this?

Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque: This has happened because our state system is weak. In this state, whether it’s the administration, the education system, the judiciary, or any other sector, actions are taking place that are neither lawful nor just. In this distorted state and social system, teachers are being humiliated, losing their respect, and are subjected to various forms of oppression.

How can this be resolved? Legal measures can be taken, but they do not provide a complete solution. A true solution requires democratic leadership. The idea that a government formed through elections alone is democratic is entirely wrong. Democracy must encompass the continuous improvement of the people’s economy, politics, and culture. This progress won’t happen overnight; it will be slow but must move towards development and advancement. Writers need to work towards creating such leadership, and so do artists. Political leadership must be fostered at the highest levels of society.

We also need to understand that human civilization is evolving. Science is not stagnant. New innovations are happening. In the same way, sociological thinking is advancing. Human life is also progressing. Unfortunately, our nation has very little connection with this progressive mindset. Some of our renowned writers may have some distinction, but their writings have not contributed to the creation of political leadership. There is no mentality to create such leadership either. These are the reasons for the weaknesses in our current politics. Political thought needs to be strengthened, and politics should be used for the welfare of the people. We hope that our political leaders will fulfill our national responsibilities. At the same time, Bangladesh has to position itself within international relations. This international context must also be considered.

People around the world feel that the United Nations needs reform. Why? The wars, conflicts, loss of lives, and destruction of property we are witnessing today — these are exactly what the United Nations was supposed to prevent. Ensuring that these issues did not arise was the organization's first duty. For this, it should have had military power. Some military power remains today, as we see in peacekeeping efforts in the Middle East. But now, a military force is needed that can ensure peace in all countries. The United Nations needs to be restructured with these kinds of thoughts. However, major Western powers — such as the US, Canada, Britain, France, and Germany, along with Japan — are not considering such efforts. It is the general people who must think that the UN is not fulfilling its potential, and we demand more effective actions from it.

States will remain, nation-states and nationalism will continue to exist; however, internationalism will coexist with them. Internationalism is not the enemy of nationalism; it is complementary. When conflicts arise between nation-states, when there is a risk of war, it is at these times that the United Nations is needed. The UN should have significant legal authority to intervene in such situations.

Views Bangladesh: Bangladesh is on the list of 21 countries considered risky for U.S. citizens. In this situation, what do you think our foreign policy should be?

Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque: Our foreign policy should not be primarily aligned with the U.S. Our main focus should be on relations with China, Russia, and also India. We shouldn't blindly follow everything these nations say, but we should maintain friendly ties with them. The direction these countries are heading seems to be more favorable for us. The war is harming Russia and devastating Ukraine — this is a terrible situation. The United Nations should be resolving this, ending the war, but it has been unable to do so.

Views Bangladesh: After Sheikh Hasina left the country, the house at Dhanmondi 32 was demolished. More than 1,500 sculptures, including the statues of our seven Bir Sreshtho (war heroes), have been destroyed. Why is the interim government's advisor silent on this?

Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque: This is a very important issue. There was a movement for reforming the student quota system, which happened previously as well. At that time, Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina said they would resolve it. After promising a resolution, how did the matter end up in the High Court? The court decided that this couldn't be done and that things must revert to their previous state as per the constitution. The fact that this issue reached the High Court was clearly in line with Sheikh Hasina's wishes. The High Court's decision was taken in such a way that there would be no further protests. There's no reason to believe the High Court is infallible or that its verdicts are absolute truths. Judges are also human, with their own limitations. In our country, those in power often control the judiciary. This has been the case not just under Hasina’s government, but also previous governments.

Within this reality, our nation's history has been destroyed. Even the memory of Begum Rokeya has been attacked. Many other things have been demolished. A museum had been established at 32 Dhanmondi in honor of Bangabandhu (Sheikh Mujibur Rahman), and it was completely torn apart. I saw in the newspaper that a large mural of Bangabandhu was destroyed with hammers and crowbars over the course of three to four days. Who were the ones responsible for this destruction? Sheikh Hasina said it was the work of Jamaat and the BNP. Later, she stopped commenting on the matter. After resigning from her position as prime minister, she claimed it was the U.S. that orchestrated her ousting. The Awami League had always blamed Jamaat-BNP, but when she realized that America was behind it, she should have united the nation from the beginning, just as India and other nations do.

Views Bangladesh: Thank you for your time on behalf of Views Bangladesh.

Abul Kashem Fazlul Haque: Thank you as well.