Very few are genuinely progressive and non-communal by heart

American expatriate writer couple Jyoti Prakash Dutta and scientist and poet Purabi Basu recently came to Dhaka. The 'Views Bangladesh' team went to their residence in Shantinagar, Dhaka, to hear about their writings and philosophy at the twilight time of their lives. The poet Girish Goiric and novelist Ranzit Sarker and co-editor of Views Bangladesh Mahfuz Sardar had a long conversation about the writer couple's literature, philosophy, politics, etc.

Girish Goiric: People move from one country to another for the needs of life. In that case, we have seen Syrian poet Adonis, Calcutta's Megha Majumder, and Canadian poet Rupi Kaur. Many like them are international best sellers even though they are expatriating; but what is the reason why Bangladeshi diaspora writers cannot become international best sellers or famous?

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: The reason is straightforward: we don't write in English, and if we don't write in English, Bengali poets and writers can never become international best sellers or famous. However, many are trying to fill this gap by translating from Bengali to English. However, this is not enough. So, we cannot reach out to the outside world like writers in other languages. The biggest reason is that the literature you want to translate must have economic power. We don't have that power. In bookshops in different countries, I have seen some books from this subcontinent in Indian translations and a few Japanese ones, but mainly German and Spanish books. Therefore, since we do not write in English, although we do have some writings in English, we have written them in Bangladesh, but we have not tried to spread them to the outside world, nor have we had the opportunity. This is our failure.

Purabi Basu: If you look at foreign literature, say in Russian, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, or Afrikaans, novels, poems, or other writings that gain fame are first translated into English. We usually translate from that English translation, but the source language is not directly learned and translated.

Girish Goiric: What is the reason behind this not happening?

Purabi Basu: Who will translate English? Lack of English translators. Those with writing skills may not be as interested in translation. They may write good English but can't write good stories. The translation is not proper, so they don't get our story. It is not that they are not charmed by our stories, but they do not obtain the chance to read our writings because our writings do not reach them properly.

Ranzit Sarker: What initiative should be taken for this?

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: There are many initiatives to take. But we don't have much power to write here. Maybe we don't even have the means. Our writing had to have economic power like that of Japan or Germany.

Mahfuz Sardar: Many writers from Bangladesh have gone to different countries, and they wrote in their autobiographies that they went to America, Japan, Canada, and Peru. We know that the expatriate Bengalis invited them, but why does no literary organization or the state of that country invite them?

Purabi Basu: It is true. But due to the socioeconomic status we have in the world, we are not well received by them. There aren't many liberal countries that will honor us by inviting us, inviting one of our writers, or making a poet from Bangladesh the chief guest in the program. Why will they do it? They won't.

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: When I went to study at University of Missouri, I started looking for Bengali novels in the library and saw a translation of a story by Buddhadeb Basu. We do not even know that Buddhadeb Basu translated so many stories.

Purabi Basu: Like Rabindranath, our only Nobel laureate, he translated 'Gitanjali' into English. No one knew him before that. It was also edited by Ezra Pound. They changed a lot. At that time, between the First and Second World Wars, Europe was leaning into spirituality. They wanted freedom. They were eager to hear such a sage-like man speak of spirituality. They were enjoying life. They were waiting for Rabindranath. They were also ready for Rabindranath's writings with ease.
Ranzit Sarker: If our failure continues for ages, when will our literature reach the people of the world?

Purabi Basu: I don't know, but I think our literature will reach the world mainly through diaspora writers or writers of their generation. I don't understand how much we can do, but our children who do not speak Bengali but know Bengali life will be more popular and acceptable because they will write in English. An unappreciated Bengali text in the present time may well be appreciated after 20 years. However, many of our generation who write in English are making names, such as Monika Ali and Jhumpa Lahiri.

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: But the thing is that whatever we are writing, our Bengali population is not small; we have a lot of people, fourth in the world, shouldn't our readers be sufficient? But we don't think it's enough. We still have this English mentality, which the British imparted to us. We cannot look at ourselves. Is our literature terrible? No.

Girish Gairic: Judging by the number of books we read from the outside world, we cannot say that the quality of our literature is not high.

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: We cannot and will not say that the quality of our literature is not high.
Girish Goiric: What is your advice on how we can transcend the literature of our generation?

Purabi Basu: We think it can be done in different ways, but one thing we are trying to do is to organize writers from all over. They will exchange views, read the writings, discuss, criticize, and compare with the writings of different countries, increasing their communication. From that effort, we held an annual event called the 'World Bangla Literature' convention. So Bengali writers from various countries come and get together and discuss writing; discuss what is being written in Bengali literature. It is one way, but not the only way. Another way is excellent translation from Bengali to English, Spanish, and other languages that many know and understand. But that is not happening.

Ranzit Sarker: You have researched 'Khana,' a mythological term in our Indo-Pak subcontinent. Later, we see Sarat Chandra Chattopadhyay employing this mythological term to spread mythological relationships in literature. Is there any other term like 'Khana' so that our four hundred years of Bengali literature will spread among the new generation?

Purabi Basu: Humayun Ahmed had potential after 'Khana,' after Sarat Chandra Chattopadhyay in terms of popularity, Humayun Ahmed had potential. When I read Humayun Ahmed's novel 'Nondito Noroke,' I felt that a writer had come to us, writing something completely different. But later, I could not read much as I was not in the country. But I was not impressed at all with what I read later. I was a bit disappointed because, just like before, the first two or three books didn't feel like it. He may have gone commercial towards the end. Still, it was good to write something. But in the end, 'Madhyahn' is a good novel, which he wrote focusing on the Pakistan-India partition, Hindu-Muslim relations at that time, and various contradictions. Then, by writing the books 'Josna O Jononir Golpo' and 'Badshah Namdar,' he showed that he could write well and go deep if he wanted to. When he writes 'Mdhyahan,' he relates what is happening in Bangladesh, what is happening in Europe, even what is happening in Germany, and what Hitler did, which is very interesting. As a result, I think Humayun Ahmed had the opportunity to create the myth, i.e., the mythology with which literature is created. But I don't believe it was entirely successful.

Girish Goiric: Like Devdas, Misir Ali's character is not universal.

Purabi Basu: I didn't think so either. At one time, it was seen that the characters of Humayun Ahmed, the same characters with the same characteristics, kept coming repeatedly. As a result, I did not get anything new. Many people think popularity does not mean good quality writing, but I don't feel so. When the masses love a writer, not everyone gets something light; some get something serious. It is not that popular writings are always of high quality, but Humayun Ahmed has several high-quality writings. However, there are many pieces he could have avoided writing.

Girish Goiric: Dada, you called one of Saad Kamali's stories, 'Ziafat,' one of the best stories in the Bengali language. In your stories, we find a magical aspect after Kamal Kumar Majumdar Shahidul Zahir. The language is not easy. What is your opinion about this sense of language?

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: Ha ha ha. When I started writing, I wrote stories in college magazines daily. I was not so conscious about using the language, but later, I gave one or two examples of how language sense developed in me. Enamul Haque, the editor of 'Uttoron' magazine, made me a co-editor after coming to university and said, Jyoti, you need to write new stories. After writing a story, I went to Sikandar Abu Jafar, who told me to rewrite it. Then, I felt I must create a language that people could see. I will not write like others. The story will be different, and the language will be different.
The biggest thing is that I didn't think so much then as I think now. It is not so easy to give a language a somewhat distinctive look. For that, one must have the complete knowledge of the language. I guess I had that. I am a student of the Bengali language. I didn't read Bengali to read Bengali books; I read Bengali literature to learn and know the language. But the sense of language must be accompanied by grammar. I studied the grammar of Sarat Chandra, Vidyasagar closely; I knew grammar. Consequently, I tried to flesh out a different form and style by combining grammar and sense of language, which many later considered a new form and style. It is the result of a conscious effort.

Girish Goiric: There is a short chapter about you in Nirmalendu Goon's book 'Mahajivaner Kabya,' where he said you decided on the name of his first book of poetry, 'Premanshur Rakta Chai.' I would like to hear your recollections about him.

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: There was a time when Nirmalendu Goon used to spend a lot of time in our house and didn't even sit for exams, just like a vagabond. He wrote poetry and had friends. When he was bringing out his first book of poetry, I said there is no better name than 'Premanshur Rakta Chai.' I told you that just writing poetry alone won't do, Nirmal. There is a thing called a career. Something must be done. By saying this, we made great efforts to make him appear in the BA exam; we forced him to take the exam.

Girish Goiric: But he never went to get that result.

Purabi Basu: Later, he wrote that we forced him to take the exam. I did not see Goon before marriage. I met him for the first time after the marriage. He has always been our good friend. But it's a bit wild.

Ranzit Sarker: Many poets who are a little bit crazy have become popular in the world. Be it in America or Bangladesh.

Jyoti Prakash Dutta: And poets get some sort of indulgence; we indulge them. But when we see their actions, we do not see craziness. I read the writings of Nirmalendu Goon, and I have not noticed any craziness in them.

Girish Goiric: You are an established writer and a scientist currently. You say you have published more than forty articles. How did this journey begin?

Purabi Basu: I passed SSC in humanities, not in science. I studied science first in college. When I passed ISC and went to do honors, the pharmacy department was trendy and very hard to get into, but I always had more of an eye for the tough.
I got admitted to medical college. My father was a doctor. But he never forced us. I thought I would study pharmacy, make medicine, earn money, and help my father. However, while studying pharmacy, I felt it was not a theoretical but an applied science. I am less interested in it. This is not the science I wanted to study. But Bangladesh has such a system that if I don't like it after studying a subject for a few years and moving to another department, I will lose everything, including the scholarship. It was not possible to study without the scholarship. As a result, I was forced to finish my honors in pharmacy. I did not get the result as expected. However, after studying pharmacy, I first got an opportunity to go to America. I studied biochemistry there, and my inclination toward basic science got exposure. At one time, I left science and started writing.

Girish Goiric: Are there any regrets that you couldn't do it at this point in life?

Purabi Basu: I had one hope: to see Hindu-Muslim harmony, but it is not happening. (choked voice).

Girish Goiric: What do you think standing at this moment? Where does this condition of harmony stand now?

Purabi Basu: Not good. Earlier, discrimination was understood from the outside. Now, people are civilized and educated. As a result, you cannot understand it from the appearance. But at heart, very few people are genuinely progressive and secular.

Mahfuz Sardar: Thank you.

Jyoti Prakash Dutta and Purabi Basu: Thank you, too.