We don't want the country to become stateless

Mamunur Rashid is a playwright, actor, and drama director. He is a pioneering figure in the post-independence theatre movement of Bangladesh. He has written and directed numerous plays for television and has acted in numerous television dramas. For his significant contribution to theatre, he was awarded the Ekushey Padak in 2012. Though he received the Bangla Academy Award in 1982, he rejected it as a protest against the autocratic regime. Recently, he talked to Views Bangladesh to discuss the country's political landscape, the disrespect towards artists and intellectuals, and the anti-liberation narratives. The interview was conducted by Views Bangladesh Associate Editor Girish Goiric. This is the second part of a three-part interview.

Views Bangladesh: What are your personal expectations from the director general of Shilpakala Academy Jamil Ahmed?

Mamunur Rashid: I personally respect him a lot, and I still do. Of course, everyone has their flaws and mistakes in life. He is a very professional, educated, and trained person. He has a great reputation in theatre, especially his National School of Drama has a good reputation. So, from that aspect, he is very good. I thought he would understand the matters from the core, but it seems there is a thought in his mind to create a 'new narrative.' This idea of creating a 'new narrative' is probably the reason behind these unfortunate incidents. However, the narratives we have built over time, he himself was a part of those. He has worked with me in several plays. He has worked on lighting and set design. From that perspective, he does have artistic excellence.

I have noticed that people with artistic excellence also understand politics. Let me give a rough example – Satyajit Ray. If you look at Satyajit Ray’s Heerak Rajar Deshe, you will see a strong political message. The same is true for Pather Panchali. Even in his last film, Agantuk, there’s a political aspect. When Utpal Dutt was in jail, Satyajit Ray stood in the streets for his release. His biggest problem was that his political perspective and commitment to society were things we couldn’t understand. This lack of understanding is perhaps the reason for these conflicts and complexities.

Views Bangladesh: Many young writers, intellectuals, and literary figures on social media have accused Jamil Ahmed of aligning with anti-independence elements. How do you interpret this?

Mamunur Rashid: It is difficult to make a clear statement on this. However, I believe there is partial truth to this.

Views Bangladesh: Five months have passed since the mass uprising. During these five months, there has been a significant political blow to our culture. In particular, we have seen that cultural activists, who previously enjoyed certain financial benefits, are now being deprived of them. There are fewer plays being staged, fewer poetry events, and cultural programs are almost non-existent. What kind of message do you think this lack is sending to society?

Mamunur Rashid: It's very unfortunate. What you’ve said is absolutely true – that in the past five months, cultural activists have been subject to neglect in various ways. But what’s deeper and more complex is that everyone is suffering from a great depression.

Just as the nation is uncertain about when elections will be held, when political parties will return, and when this uncertainty will end, artists are in the same situation. Everywhere, in every organization, divisions are being created. Not just one division, but multiple divisions. Among our theatre artists, divisions have been created without reason. If there was a major cause behind it, that would be one thing. But here, there’s no issue related to interests, yet we see some people suddenly springing up. Organizations are dividing in various ways. As a result, what we are seeing is that, as an artist, I work with everyone – writers, intellectuals, everyone. I have worked even during times of crisis.

We have several crises, as I have mentioned before. In particular, I have never seen any ruling group in Bangladesh show concern for the artists. Not all artists are economically successful. There are many good artists and actors who perform with us, but perhaps they haven’t achieved economic success. How will these people survive? They survive on a small income. Once work starts, they get some opportunities. If they get work for even four or five days a month, that at least helps them pay rent, buy food, and afford medicines. Just the other day, an elderly actress told me, "Brother, I don't even have money to buy medicine." This means she’s not getting any work for a day or two in the entire month.

What we used to do is that, through the organizations, we would try to help. When there was only one television channel in Bangladesh, Bangladesh Television, we would ask to involve elderly artists in the shows. At least by giving them two roles, we could help them survive. Even when packaged dramas came about, we kept this in mind. But now, the situation for artists is dire! During the pandemic, work stopped. Then, through our organizations, we collected money and arranged help in various ways. We even delivered food to their homes. These artists’ crisis is that no one is looking out for their welfare. Now, even that is non-existent.

Now, when political parties are in power, there are some benefits. That’s when we can go to a minister or MP and ask them to make arrangements. Even if only temporary measures are taken, we can still get something from them. But with this interim government, we don’t know anyone. Some NGO people have become advisors, completely disconnected from the public; no one knows them. And they don’t feel the need to take any social responsibility.

Views Bangladesh: You must be aware that just two days ago, Major Dalim, one of the killers of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and his family, has reappeared. He gave an interview to the son of another collaborator, in which it was stated that only three lakh people were martyred in the Liberation War, not thirty lakh. How do you interpret this narrative?

Mamunur Rashid: Did he count three lakh? Why has he never opposed the narrative that has been told all this time? Why didn’t he speak out before? He should have said something long ago. He has said some very dangerous things. On the morning of August 15, we heard an announcement on Bangladesh Betar – "I am Major Dalim, we have killed Sheikh Mujib." So, that same person is now saying 50 years later that Mujib died in a crossfire. What an astonishing statement! And as for Ziaur Rahman not being a freedom fighter – does Ziaur Rahman need to get his freedom fighter certificate from Dalim? He has said many irrelevant and unnecessary things. He has a responsibility to history, he is a killer. And with this interview, he has created yet another responsibility.

There are some expatriate YouTubers in our country who live safely abroad. Those of us who have stayed in the country, protested for years, marched in movements against various governments, written, spoken on talk shows – we did all of this at the risk of our lives. They have no such risk. They are irresponsibly confusing the people of Bangladesh with their words. This confusion needs to end. There is one person, Pinaki, who seems to be the voice of Bangladesh. Some of his statements give the impression that he is serving the Pakistani ruling class. He is giving comfort to the very same groups who opposed our independence during the Liberation War. Now, with the interim government in place, he is spewing venom against them as well.

We want the country to not become stateless. When the government is absent, the country becomes stateless. The land has been ours for thousands of years, but the state is created by the people – the government, the military, the bureaucracy, the republic. We had a situation where we had a country but no state. But now we have a state, one that follows the constitution and the laws of the country. How well they follow them is a different matter.

For the past 52 years, I have always said that we have failed to make the state humane. We have failed to make it the people’s state. I have said this. Indeed, has our state been humane? Has it become the state of all people? Just a few majors killed the president and hijacked the country, and now they roam freely. This means that our ruling class is very small in its scope. The participation of people from all walks of life in the state is not there in our country. It wasn’t there under previous governments either, and now those in power are not even in a position to stay. So, there is a state now, but expatriates, especially Pinaki Bhattacharya, are attacking this state, attacking this, attacking that. Many of these attacks are meaningful and logical. This is a problem. Elias is also doing this. So, stay in the country, take risks, be with the people of Bangladesh, and then criticize – there is no problem with that.

(To be continued)

Also Read:

Episode 1
Efforts on to remove us from mainstream cultural practices